Cap and Trade is Dead (Really, Truly, I’m Not Kidding). Who’s to Blame?

The headline has been written countless times, but this time it is true: carbon cap-and-trade of any sort will not come out of this Congress—and perhaps it never will. Instead of comprehensive economy-wide carbon cap that Senator John Kerry had urged—and that the House had already passed a year ago—or even the compromise utility-only cap bill that had been suggested as an alternative, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced today that he would move forward next week on a bill that only deals with the BP oil spill and a few other low-profile energy policies. The reason was simple, according to Reid—politics:

It’s easy to count to 60. I could do it by the time I was in eighth grade. My point is this, we know where we are. We know we don’t have the votes [for a bill capping emissions]. This is a step forward.

That Reid couldn’t get a filibuster-beating super-majority to pass climate and energy legislation surely seems to be the case—after all, the Majority Leader can indeed count. But the idea that such an unambitious bill—even after the shock of the oil spill—represents anything but treading water is a joke. According to Democratic Senator Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico—who had pushed an earlier compromise energy bill out of his committee—Reid’s bill won’t include a carbon cap or even a renewable energy standard, which would require utilities to source a certain percentage of their electricity from clean sources. Instead it’s likely to contain energy efficiency upgrades for home appliances and measures to push the nation’s trucking fleet to use cleaner natural gas. (Something the Texas oil-turned-wind tycoon T. Boone Pickens has been advocating for years, as Bradford Plumer of the New Republic points out—so at least a Texas billionaire who made his money off petroleum is having a good day.) It’s possible that the Democrats will be able to put some form of a carbon cap back into the bill after the August recess or even during the lame-duck session following the November elections—but that has about a snowball’s chance in midtown Manhattan (after global warming) of coming true.

So what happened? How did a Democratic President who came to office talking up climate change and promising a strong carbon cap, plus a Democratic Senate and House of Representatives, plus the late impetus of the oil spill, somehow come away with barely more than nothing? As a stunned environmental community sifts through the wreckage, they’ll find no shortage of perpetrators.

-The filibuster and the Republicans: It should go without saying at this point, but the increasing reliance on the filibuster has made the U.S. Senate a deeply, deeply dysfunctional body—and the Republicans, who were nearly lockstep against any climate legislation with a cap, were only to happy to abuse it. It was always going to be difficult to get any kind of carbon cap passed in the Senate. (It took a heroic effort from Speaker Nancy Pelosi to force a cap-and-trade bill through the House last year—and the vulnerable Democrats who voted for it may get BTUed this November in response.) An accelerated transition to a cleaner economy—and the accelerated phasing out of dirty fossil fuels—is going to disproportionately hit southern and midwestern states that depend disproportionately on coal. The Senate by its very composition gives disproportionate power to rural states in the midwest and the south—so  getting 51 votes was going to be tough, even with 59 Democrats in the Senate. The fact that all bills must now get 60 votes to pass thanks to the filibuster—which wasn’t always the case—meant that any climate and energy bill needed at least a few Republicans.

But the Republicans never even played a constructive role in the shaping of the bill, with the exception of Senator Lindsey Graham—who abruptly dropped out of his alliance with John Kerry and Joseph Lieberman shortly before their cap-and-trade bill was due to come out, ostensibly because of his annoyance over immigration reform. Otherwise the Republican party seemed happy to ignore one of the most important long-term threats facing the human race, pleased to follow the example of colleagues like Senator James Inhofe, he of the “climate change is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people” quote. There was plenty of room for debate over how we should choose to address climate change and energy, and conservative ideas would have been helpful—but nothing substantial was forthcoming.

-The Democrats: While it’s true that the filibuster present a high barrier for any climate and energy action, the reality is that Reid may have struggled to get even 51 votes for a stronger bill, because a number of Democrats were almost as obstructionist as their Republican colleagues. Coal state Democrats like Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and George Voinovic Evan Bayh of Indiana were almost certainly never going to vote for a bill with a carbon cap, knowing what it might do to the coal industry. Farm state Democrats like Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Ben Nelson of Nebraska weren’t any better.

The truth is there weren’t enough Democrats willing to support a carbon cap, let along Republicans. Michael Shellenberger of the Breakthrough Institute—a think tank that is highly skeptical of cap and trade—told me that his group spoke to environmental lobbyists back in 2008 who were working on a cap-and-trade bill in the Senate then, the Warner-Lieberman bill. Though it never went to a full vote, Shellenberger believes that a carbon cap bill in 2008 would have received no more than 35 votes. Now there are more Democrats in the Senate than there were then, and political realities change with a Democratic president in the White House—but that’s still a huge gap.

-The White House: It’s all Obama’s fault—that’s the message that many more liberal greens are coalescing around. For all his talk in the campaign about climate change and the need to get a price on carbon (during the campaign he called to reduce carbon emissions 80% by 2050), Obama seemed generally detached from the Congressional fight over climate legislation. Andrew Revkin at Dot Earth noted that Obama never gave a substantial speech focused on the need for the U.S. to face up to the long-terms of climate change and truly take energy innovation seriously; never brought climate researchers to speak to his White House staff; never challenged conservatives like Inhofe who willfully lied on climate issues. It’s true he took office in the teeth of the worst recession in modern memory—which by itself might have killed any ambitious legislation on climate—and has juggled countless crises, but this never seemed to be a priority for him, or his top political staff at the White House. After nominating the greenest Presidential cabinet ever—including Nobel Prize-winning Energy Secretary Steven Chu—Obama seemed to think his work was done. Characteristically, when Obama gave his first Oval Office speech last month, on the oil spill and energy, he didn’t even mention a carbon cap.

Tim Dickinson, in a just published piece in Rolling Stone, lays out the case against Obama:

The failure to confront global warming – central not only to Obama’s presidency but to the planet itself – is not the Senate’s alone. Rather than press forward with a climate bill in the Senate last summer, after the House had passed landmark legislation to curb carbon pollution, the administration repeated many of the same mistakes it made in pushing for health care reform. It refused to lay out its own plan, allowing the Senate to bicker endlessly over the details. It pursued a “stealth strategy” of backroom negotiations, supporting huge new subsidies to win over big polluters. It allowed opponents to use scare phrases like “cap and tax” to hijack public debate. And most galling of all, it has failed to use the gravest environmental disaster in the nation’s history to push through a climate bill – to argue that fossil-fuel polluters should pay for the damage they are doing to the atmosphere, just as BP will be forced to pay for the damage it has done to the Gulf.

-Environmentalists: Over the past few years, most environmental groups have made climate change their number one priority. And within that—led by wonky organizations like the Natural Resources Defense Council and especially the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF)—shooting for an economy-wide carbon cap was the number one tool. A price on carbon was the only way, the market-oriented way, to reduce emissions and fight climate change. Put a cap on carbon and businesses would respond, changing the way they used energy, funding innovative new cleantech startups and ushering in an era of green jobs. That was the great green pitch—trust me, I’ve been getting it almost every day, in various ways, for the past two years.

That pitch failed. It failed because the filibuster makes legislation nearly impossible to pass. It failed because Republicans don’t take climate change seriously and conservative Democrats won’t put themselves on the line. It failed because a busy White House never made it a priority. But at the end of the day, the pitch failed—after November it’s hard to imagine we’ll soon get back to a more positive political  atmosphere for climate action—and it might be time for a new one. When a pitcher can’t close the game—I know this, I’ve been watching Brad Lidge for two and a half years—you give him the hook. “It’s hard to see cap-and-trade coming back anytime within the next decade,” Shellenberger told me.

I’ll have more in the days ahead about alternative ways to deal with energy and climate change—most of which focus on vastly increasing research money for cleantech innovation, focusing public purchases on renewable energy and improving energy efficiency standards. Hopefully that angle would be less politically divisive and easier to pass—though in this toxic political climate, who can be sure? But we need to try something else. We just lived through the hottest month on record, on track for the hottest year ever. Climate change is frightening. As Al Gore said in a statement today: “The truth about the climate crisis—inconvenient as ever—must be faced.” He’s still right.

Update: As many people pointed out to me, George Voinovich is a Republican. I had meant to write Evan Bayh—got my Midwestern senators mixed. Many apologies.

Related Topics: Al Gore, BP, cap and trade, carbon, climate change, climate legislation, energy, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Michael Shellenberger, Obama, oil, oil spill, politics, Carbon Policy, Climate Science, Politics
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  • stepshep

    I strongly believe that now greens/liberals need to focus on Senate Reform. When the new Senate starts back up they adopt the rules of how they will proceed. That’s where we kill the filibuster and get a simple majority to pass a bill, or if it HAS to be higher for some reason even bringing it down to 55 would be better…or the proposal to start with 60 then every day after cut down the number needed until it hits 51 would be better. Then we end secret holds. I don’t care if it means we have to drag Biden to preside over the Senate to make this happen, it has to happen. So for now, instead of getting more general and forceful with our message….we need to get wonkier and get this finished.

  • stepshep

    PS Ecocentric could really use a Twitter feed.

  • snarkmania

    Cap and trade is dying because the case for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is a hoax, and thankfully, voters haven’t been sufficiently swayed by amazingly credulous yet preachy know-it-all bloggers, journalists, and policy agit-proppers, who’ve never strained a muscle trying to work in the climatic sciences, or perhaps any science whatsoever.

  • snowbrdrinca

    Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. Wait until Republicans get back into office and reverse everything with a 51 vote majority.

  • aaaaandre

    Wrong Headline Again! Should read…

    “Cap and Trade is Dead (Really, Truly, I’m Not Kidding). Who’s to Congratulate!”

  • http://chasbow1552.wordpress.com chasbow1552

    HOW ABOUT THAT;;; AMERICAN PEOPLE 1 COMMUNISTS 0 IT’S ABOUT TIME WE WON.

  • usatracy

    What an unbiased report :)
    Seriously, this is not a report, its an editorial, am i wrong ?
    No, I’m not.
    The author clearly sits on the board of the WLF or wants to. Too bad most news outlets now feel the need to take a stand on issues then promote those issues, or rail against those they don’t support, instead of SERVING the people and REPORTING.

    Instead of cap and trade what we really need is a tax on lobbyists that pose as news outlets, would be easy to weed through their “reports” to find them, using phrases like “and the Republicans, who were nearly lockstep against any climate legislation with a cap, were only to happy to abuse it.” is opinion not reporting as evidenced by the inclusion of “were only to happy to abuse it.”

    Why is it ABUSE when the republicans use the tools provided to them by law to represent the voters, but it is not abuse when democrats railroad through a veiled healthcare bill in a budget ammendment (healthcare reform was not passed by the way, unless you truly believe a human can trim a 3500 page document down to 5 paragraphs ans shoehorn it into a budget bill LOL but then there are many that are fooled by such REPORTING to use the term loosely.

    Here is a revelation, PEOPLE ARE NOT DUMB, they have figured out that the NEWS outlets are actually LOBBYISTS nowadays and are more likely to DOUBT what is printed or “reported” than at any time in recent history. So you are only fooling YOURSELF when you REPORT in the manner evidenced above. We are not being fooled.

  • usatracy

    Step, you don’t have to worry about changing the rules of the filibuster, and it may come back to haunt u if u do, when the democrats lose in November they may DESIRE to have the rule in place as it is today :)

    There is little doubt a major housecleaning is in order and WILL BE ARRIVING this november and for the next 2 cycles.

    Lame Duck Obama will have little to do but entertain beginning Jan 2011 :)

  • http://sirpoins.wordpress.com sirpoins

    I believe as much as anyone that we need to do something about emissions and finding a source of clean, renewable energy, but cap and trade is not the way to fix the problem. Don’t let politicians persuade people into believing this is a fix. Under cap and trade we would still end up with the same amount of emissions, but small electric utilities would have to “trade” with larger ones in order to go above their cap. In other words, the same amount of emissions, but more money for the larger companies. All that would end up happening is that we would end up with four or five giant power companies in this country and this would be bad for all of us.

    Fixing a problem like this takes time. It takes intelligent people sitting down and figuring out the right solutions. All Cap and Trade does is feed a short term and possibly dangerous solution to people to make it seem like the Government is doing something when, in fact, nothing is really getting done. The death of this act is a good thing for the people of this country.

  • chiefobob

    Dear Time,

    This is why your magazine is tanking. Trying to pass off opinion/editorial as fact just pisses off those of us that have a brain. Hence, the only readership you have left are either sheep or idiots.

    Enjoy your pending failure.

  • tet1953

    So Harry Reid couldn’t count to sixty until he was what, 13?

  • banjo48

    It’s TOO bad that Time editors and staff can’t even use correct grammar (“were only to happy to abuse it”) and wait to post a story before the editing is complete (see “Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and George Voinovic Evan Bayh of Indiana were almost certainly never” above). I guess I have come to expect TOO much from this magazine.

    Read more: http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2010/07/22/cap-and-trade-is-dead-really-truly-im-not-kidding-whos-to-blame/?hpt=T2#add-your-comment#ixzz0uVbrle00

  • chilehed

    Hot dog. A great victory, or is relief? After reading this article my computer screen is leaning so far to the left it’s like I’m in a Batman episode. Mr. Walsh’s political leanings are blatantly obvious and the grammatical errors are probably explained by him trying to type while he was sucking his thumb in defeat. I don’t know where Mr. Walsh is homeported, New York, DC, but I’m guessing I’m close and that he’s probably located in one of the states that, “depend disproportionately on coal,” even though that’s not south or Midwest, as all states depend on coal. His gasoline is transferred into his vehicle by pumps whose motors are supplied by electricity generated mostly from coal. Trying to eliminate an energy source prior to development of a new one is crazy. Research sun-spot activity and global cooling, you may find the topic interesting.

  • soxinnc

    What good is it for us to put a cap and trade plan in place when China and India refuse to do so? Are we going to cause electric prices to jump, drive down our GDP, and cause unemployment to skyrocket to show the world what? The action has to be uniform and there must be penalties for failure to act. In other words, the playing field must be level or we will just be hurting ourselves.

  • denwoodm

    Cap and trade defeated? Thank God for the common sense of the American people, the Republican Party and George W. Bush, the Great.

  • chiefobob

    “Mr. Walsh’s political leanings are blatantly obvious and the grammatical errors are probably explained by him trying to type while he was sucking his thumb in defeat.”

    I don’t care who you are, that’s FUNNY!

  • mybs79

    My lord… the spelling and grammatical errors in these articles are incredible!

  • silverstang

    I was happy to see the positive comments from the viewers denouncing this article, YES it is good that cap and trade is dead! cap and trade was just a tax on all of us, money this government would just use to buy votes. whoever wrote this article should go work at the whitehouse and stop pretending to be reporting news.

  • kevcdunne

    All you right wing anti-environmental pro-oil spill, pro global warming republican wing nuts should get a life. I guarantee NONE of you have any background or knowledge in Natural Resources, Environmental Sciences or any other educational degree. The planet is warming – its is SOLEY being caused by the burning of fossil fuels and the destruction of the planets rain forests and it WILL – mark my words – WILL end up costing you in the long run. What part of the four hottest months on record have all occured in 2010 dont you retards understand? You republicans deny anything that doesnt fit your right wing anti-environmental ideology. I hope you all die of heat exhaustion. its 105 in Virginia today – our electric bill is thru the roof. Doing nothing will only INCREASE your utility bills you right wing jack asses. Move to Mexico if you like the heat so much.

  • kevcdunne

    Snarkmania – you are a total tool. Dont open your right wing anti-environmental pro oil spill, anti clean energy mouth if you dont know what the hell you are talking about. You are the kind of right wing jackass that would have continued to insist the earth is flat even after all the evidence has been presented to you. Continue to deny that we are burning ourselves out of existence. Better yet take Glen Becks donger out of your mouth and think for yourself you piece of crap.

  • teves09

    kevcdunne

    If you think your electric is high now, just let cap and trade pass. What you are not being told is that cap and trade is just another tax and a means of control. Let’s just think about this for one moment. If your local energy company who produces electric via coal gets hit with a hefty bill from cam and trade, who do you think they will pass that on to? The consumer my friend, which is you and I.
    Cap and trade failed because “We the people” do not want it. I.e. a majority of Americans think our tax burden is too high as it is. Oh by the way I do have a degree, more specifically 3 of them. All of which are in business and economics, you don’t need a degree in science to understand your wallet.

  • chilehed

    So angry…judgemental…misinformed…pathetic. Don’t bore me with, “hottest months on record,” because I’ll never hear about the coldest of snowiest like last winter. Please. Our planet experiences periods of heating and cooling, always has, always will. The tiny blip of time that you’re blessed to be on this earth is nothing! Also, your temp is not out of the ordinary by any stretch of the imagination. NONE! But you know what? Thank God for the coal that is providing your air conditioning! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

  • http://cordgrass.wordpress.com cordgrass

    I wonder if the trolls posting comments here are paid, or just morons.

    I am devastated by the failure of the Senate to pass a climate bill.

  • 1914980usmc

    You sound like a sore loser and a idiot at that.

  • 1914980usmc

    cordgrass
    boo-hoo boo-hoo

  • http://sirpoins.wordpress.com sirpoins

    I don’t understand why you’re “devastated by the failure of the Senate to pass a climate bill.” Do you just want them to pass something and don’t care at all about the ramifications?

    Of course, it probably should make sense to me since you’re on here calling people names like a 5th grader.

    Why does there have to be a bill passed and if one does pass, shouldn’t it be to force the companies to find ways to stop emissions? Cap and Trade wasn’t designed to do that.

    Seriously, don’t sit around and expect the news or the Government to tell you what’s best for your country. Figure it out yourself. Just because they pass a “climate bill” doesn’t mean it will help anything. They aren’t really addressing the problem. This isn’t about left or right politics it’s about taking care of the Earth for future generations.

    What are any of us doing? Are we putting solar panels on our home? Are we replacing all our light bulbs? It’s easy to sit back and expect the Government to do something…and they probably need to when it comes to major corporations, but we’re all hypocrites if we expect someone else to make this a better place to live.

  • groovygoober

    The problem with the “news” services today is that every reporter feels the need to give us their personal opinion and/or add his/her spin to pieces. I really don’t care to hear about that. I come to the news sites and/or watch the news on TV to see what is and what happened. Just tell us what happened, just the facts and leave your dang opinions to yourselves.

    As for cap and trade, hallelujah!!! Glad it got stopped. This obamacare is going to be a big enough pain in the arse to deal with as it is.

    Hey kevcdunne, where is your proof that this global warming hoax is being caused by emissions? Oh, that’s right, you don’t have any. You are just an example of the typical tree hugging, frog protecting libtard. ANYTHING for the trees or the animals, regardless of the impact on the world around you.

    Here’s a good example for you, the oil spill in the gulf is YOUR fault! You libtards whined about drilling to the point that it is banned in shallower waters (where this wouldn’t have happened to begin with). Hope you are happy for being responsible for the worst oil disaster in history!

    If you think the oil business is a conservative or republican only business you need to remove your head from your derriere and pay attention to reality. I know that’s hard for you liberals, but give it a try some time.

    No one is going to stop drilling for oil until it’s all gone. We won’t be making any serious moves toward alternative energy until the oil is gone and the current oil industry is fully vested in alternative energy. They’re not going to lose their control and profits in what they do.

    If you think current alternative sources are a good start then you have no clue. These hybrid cars today are a joke and only a token effort at best. Why is it 42 MPG is considered so god? Back in the early 90′s I could buy a Honda Civic Vi model that got 55 MPG. VW had a Rabbit model with a small diesel in it that got over 60MPG. What happened to that technology? 42 MPG, psshhh, what a joke.

    Wind farms will never become mainstream because the amount of land needed for them and the cost of the mills and and equipment nearly outstrip any benefit gained. It’s going to take engineers to significantly improve generator technology before these become viable. In fact, My nephew works for a large company that deals in this stuff and they are moving away from wind power because of this. They can’t make a profit on it, it costs too much.

    Anyway, until someone can absolutely prove global warming is caused by us, then it’s nothing but a political war cry. As Rahm Emanuel says, it’s just another “crisis” for the government exploit. Remember the “Ozone crisis” of years past? What ever happened with that? Why isn’t it still a “crisis”? Or, what ever happened to the “glaciers and ice” that were supposed to cover the land in the 70′s because we were in “global cooling”?? Never happened did it? You should really stop sucking up to obumble and his crew and get real. besides, if he made a sudden left turn it’d snap your neck…

  • logical1337

    Things cap and trade would solve:
    1. Dependence on foreign oil — our hard earned money going to other countries and indirectly funding terrorism.
    2. Also helping our national security, so the army doesn’t need vulnerable fuel transport (imagine a tank that runs on solar power, capable of long missions without a refuel) or protect oil pipelines, oil trankers and other vulerabilities.
    3. All the other, actually much more hazardous non-carbon dioxide related pollution, say mercury from coal plants, coal sludge, the waste dumped into rivers from mining, to the BP oil spill, to miners getting black lungs, to smog covering urban populations
    4. Increase our relationship with the rest of the world, who have signed the kyoto protocol and believes the US is full of gas-guzzling resourcewasteaholics
    5. Acidification of the oceans (CO2 is an acid, higher concentrations increase concentrations in the water)
    6. Create a more efficient transportation fleet, with lighter, smaller cars, high speed rails propelling the american people into a brighter high tech future, also crossover technology like batteries will help our laptops, mobile phones (seriously my htc evo lasts like 18 hours) saving money for everyone
    7. and oh yeah that pesky global warming thing, which the UN estimates is affecting 300 million people today, yes today, not some estimate for the future, but right here right now

    Last time i checked using less energy meant you were saving money? Also cap and trade would create a carbon market, creating businesses and extra incentives for innovation, which the powerful american economy should have no trouble doing? you seem to have no faith in the american people to overcome obstacles, as if a little carbon dioxide molecule is vital to our prosperity?

  • doubts42

    Wow, I am sure you really impress your buddies with all your name calling and hyperbole. Too bad you can’t make a coherent point.

  • http://sirpoins.wordpress.com sirpoins

    All of the points in your post are things I would like to see our Country striving for; however, I don’t see anything in there that explains to me how Cap and Trade accomplishes it.

    The Cap part of it is that companies will have a cap on how much emissions are released from power plants. The trade part of it is because larger companies will have a higher cap than others and smaller companies will end up paying them to “trade” for more credits, thus, more emissions over their cap.

    I don’t see how that will then lead to fixing any issues. I have simplified how it will work, but that’s the basic idea of what will happen.

    Look how it works here: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2009/0627/p25s11-wogi.html

    Please quit the name calling and focus on the issue. And whatever you do…try and understand this stuff for yourselves instead of relying on a news channel or Rush Limbaugh to do your thinking for you…

  • doubts42

    I am sorry, I really wanted to read the rest of this op-ed posing as a news article but i could not get past th part where Harry Reid did not learn to count to 60 until he was a teenager. I am more proud than ever of my 5 year old, who before kindergarden could count all 100 members of the Senate.

  • kkurtt

    WHO TO BLAME???
    1. The media and its obsession with carbon. And willingness to follow algore to a place where it is always hot
    2. the concept that if cap and trade is passed and the cost of all forms of carbon energy will go thru the roof –then alternative energy will become more attractive.
    3. The dumb jerks who stopped Nuclear power 40 years ago and now are reborn believers–dumb and dumber
    4. the short sightedness of the enviros who only look to today and now–not looking forward to see that their concerns would pass away as science and American ingenuity would cure the problem
    5 the enviros who cannot see that 95% of emission control cost 5% whereas 100% compliance would destroy the energy industry–and they would not compromise.–and won media praise.
    THANK GOD FOR THE COMMON SENSE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FINALLY WAKING UP THE THE CRAP THE MEDIA HAS BEEN SELLING AS THE NEXT BEST MEAL. THANK THE MEDIA FOR BEING SO SMART THEY ARE STUPID AND ARE KILLING THE GOLDEN GOOSE. HURRAY FOR ALTERNATIVE MEDIA–. EVEN CONFUCIUS UNDERSTOOD THAT TRUTH WILL OUT

  • edweirdness

    It’s my guess that perhaps it was the will of America’s citizens that help prevent this ridiculous legislation from passing. I likewise suspect that will see more of the will of the people acting as guidance in our governance after the November mid-term elections. Seriously, rather than make a bunch of Wall Street Investors and Bankers even richer from selling a non-existent product (carbon futures) that have no asset value (especially if global warming does in fact turn out to be simply another scam), and that will not add even one job (outside of the bureaucracy and Wall Street), wouldn’t it make some sense to address the true fundamental problem? Indeed, if we were to stabilize the obscene population growth we experience from unconstrained immigration (legal as well as illegal) we would do more to reduce our nations carbon footprint and energy usage (to say nothing of spiraling energy costs), than all of Congress and the Obama administrations harebrained Cap and Trade taxation schemes put together. The bonus for doing so is that the jobs created in securing the border and enforcing our immigration laws would be for legal American workers, and unlike all the other stimulus jobs, these jobs would be based on demand and would reduce as a burden on taxpayers as attrition through enforcement reduces the population of illegal aliens operating inside our nation. Like it or not folks, too many people competing for the same limited resources is NOT sane, sustainable social, economic or environmental policy!

  • chase7557

    Thank God!

  • edweirdness

    Let’s try this again. We’re already experiencing water and energy shortages over large portions of the southwest, this is fact.

    All of the alternative energy resources being considered at present require vast amounts of real estate and water if they are to be viable and competitive.

    Suitable real estate and water that are at premium prices, and in increasingly short supply as a result of the overpopulation the United States has experienced through unconstrained immigration (likewise a misguided Obama agenda item).

    Neither consumers nor investors will have much interest in alternative energy that is more expensive or more problematic to use than existing energy resources (i.e. if you have to buy a different car, or gut your house, that would seem to me ‘problematic’). Or in any energy alternative that will remain in constant short supply as the result of overpopulation.

    Solar, wind, Hydro, geo-thermal, bio fuels, all require vast amounts of land and water if they are to compete against present energy resources. Even more land will be needed to bring remote production to the ‘grid’, thus begetting even more overpopulation, congestion and sprawl. Vast amounts of land and water that are rapidly being consumed by the invasion that Mr. Obama and this Congress insists is simply ‘healthy levels of immigration’. It should be noted that no army, ever, in the history of this planet, has ever managed to land as many ‘boots on the ground’ in any length of time as that which our ‘legal immigration’ tolerates, on a daily, weekly, monthly, or annual basis. Now add to that the suspected millions in illegal immigration and you get a picture of what I mean by ‘invasion’.

    Real estate is finite, water resources are finite, fresh air is finite, some of each must be set aside as untouchable if we are to produce the food and oxygen necessary to offset even the meager pollution of exclusive alternative energy production. Fresh air, clean water, and wide open spaces,,, they aren’t making anymore of any of these folks!

    The self serving, political, open borders, overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl agenda of this President and Congress must be weighed in the balance of our ability to ever become truly ‘energy independent’. We cannot address energy independence unless we accept that unlimited population growth will preclude such independence.

    As late as the 50′s and into the 60′s, the United States was a net exporter of energy. We produced all that our citizens consumed, with a surplus to sell to other nations. Population growth, and the emergence of NIMBY diminished our energy production capabilities, yet throughout all those days of our energy boom, we never saw an oil disaster anywhere near that playing out in the Gulf of Mexico. Our real chance at energy independence was sacrificed on the alter of ‘realtors, real estate development, and self serving elitists who wanted beach front vista’s and cheap immigrant labor to trim the verge’.

    Consumers of energy and investors in energy both agree that any alternative to present energy resources must be competitively priced, and not subject to the vagaries of speculators, spot demand, political or foreign interests if they are to be true alternatives to hydro carbon based energy. Obviously such an energy resource would not be popular with the political class or Washington elitists, because it would deny these interests the last real power the political class has to manipulate the citizens and force them to do their bidding.

    Certainly neither energy consumers nor investors will be interested in any alternative energy resources that will only be consumed by egregious population growth before they even reach the market. As third world populations flee to take advantage of American taxpayer funded largess, the ability of the elitists, the drug lords, the political class of these rapidly ‘depopulating’ nations to become the new “alternative Energy OPEC Masters’ should not escape anyone’s attention. Much of the real estate and resources across our southern border is controlled by the private armies of thugs and drug lords. Unlike drugs though, every human on the planet is addicted to energy.

    We can focus on becoming energy and food/resource independent as a nation, and continue to reach out and aid others in their quest for democracy, social justice, and economic equity in their own countries, or we can concentrate on taking in all the worlds poor, uneducated, disenfranchised, sick, elderly, and just plain malcontent. The former offers a return to the greatness that our founding fathers envisioned for America’s citizens, while the latter will only last so long as America’s taxpayers will allow, or until our increasingly socialist government collapses under it’s own weight.

    Any nation that does not produce the energy it needs, the products it’s citizens consume, or that cannot feed it’s population from the bounty within it’s borders, is doomed to be constrained by political forces, foreign interests, and events beyond the control of it’s citizens.

  • teves09

    It seems to me that our fellow citizens with a left leaning political ideology need a lesson in simple economics.
    1. Cap and Trade is a Tax
    a. When the Government applies any fee to consumer related goods (Cars, Boats, Homes and yes energy) that fee always gets passed on to the consumer. Cap and Trade sounds nice but if you call it what it is “The Energy Use Tax” no person in their right mind would like that. So politicians think of a nice name for it like Cap and Trade.
    2. Demand for energy does not go down regardless of price. Economic Law
    a. If you think it will, if you demand it will and if you simply believe it will – IT WILL NOT. People do not turn the heat off in the winter, they do not turn the AC up in the summer and they do not stop driving to work. Every time I hear some proponent of cap n’ trade state that when the price goes up demand will go down, I think they don’t know or understand economics. Energy is a commodity that people must have regardless of price. They may decide to not take a summer vacation or take one closer to home but they still have to go to work and who cares if it is in in a bus or car. And don’t tell me that you will turn your AC off in August.
    3. Before you consider cap and trade here you should have a look at Europe
    a. Fact – Europe’s cap and trade program has driven electricity prices so high that the factories routinely shut down for part of the day to save money on power, which, contrary to environmental goals, reduces energy efficiency
    b. Fact – Because energy costs have risen factories have been laying off employees even though demand for products is high.
    c. Fact – Production is shifting to China where they have no cap and trade regulations. And they will not have cap and trade because they don’t care about the environment or listen to the west on environmental issues.
    I want to save the environment as much as any American, but if you ignore the economics of the issue you will destroy the economy and put us in a far worse situation. The best way to protect the environment is to encourage companies and the individual American citizen to innovate.. Offer incentives to use less and to install products and appliances that use less energy.

  • tootired6

    Next week he’ll try his hand at long division.

  • snarkmania

    kevcdunne,
    I am an earth scientist who has worked in the climate-change arena for over 15 years. I have published peer-reviewed articles related to climatic interpretations and modeling. I have also worked for environmental groups on significant issues. I’m not a right-winger.
    I don’t exist in your world, I know. So I’ve started a site ‘blog’ to support those of us who feel that we are being railroaded by the proponents of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming.
    http://www.abeqas.com

  • freejapaneselessons

    Ocean water can spontaneously form Hydroxl acid, even with no external influence whatsoever. What will happen if, prompted by human interaction, the oceans fill up with this dangerous, acidic substance?!

    Marine biologists have found that the acidic phytoplankton living at the oceans surface will use it to metabolize CO2 acid and its acidic counterpart, carbonic acid (the stuff that CO2 makes the instant it hits hydroxl acid) in an acidic process called “photosynthesis.”

    Those acidic phytoplankton will generate heat when digesting the CO2, warming the acidic ocean to create not only a greenhouse effect in the atmoshpere, but HYDROPONIC GLOBAL WARMING in the an acidic environment that counts for 3/4 of the earth’s surface!!! This is a deleterious, acidic warming effect much more dangerous than anything humans, who only take up a tiny fraction of the world’s surface, could ever image.

    The world is filling up every day with compounds that have acidic pH balances–they’re not neutral! Prepare for the worst.
    :-O

  • snidewoman

    Who’s to BLAME… the American Public has come to their senses.. it should read who do we THANK.

  • vintel7

    This is nothing but pure human stupidity. Your child is dying and your first instinct is to save the child right? That would be in a sane world of psycho-spiritually healthy human beings not in the dysfunctional narcissistic and co-dependent spiritually hostile and ignorant world and culture that we live in. This years temperature average will exceed last years; which was the highest on record. The Greenland icecap is melting at an alarming level. Species are dying. Can’t all of you perceive weird weather and symptoms that something is not right? IN New England, we don’t have Spring anymore…we go from Winter to Summer. We have 90 degree days in January. Humans are blind, careless, stupid, and immoral for not acting 10 years ago in response to climate change. Now we will reap what we have sown on this planet and we will get our just reward. In 5-10 years, humans will be killing each other for a clean drink of water. Climate Change is serious. Stupid narcissistic humans imagine that somehow if we ignore it, it will go away or somehow we won’t have to deal with it. This is pure stupidity. Frankly, I am ashamed and embarrassed to be an American or a human being for than matter. The human race is a pathetic bunch of unevolved animals that need to get slapped before they will take action.

  • vintel7

    Stupid people. High electricity bills are nothing compared to what is coming and what is already happening. How stupid and ignorant can you be to think of your bills before you think of the Earth? You are concerned that your electric bill is going up and the planet is dying. Every scientist worth his or her salt understands this and the dire consequences that are coming. 3/4 of the human race will be wiped out. When chaos comes and humans are killing each other for a glass of water, you will regret that you were so stupid, narcissistic, unconscious, and selfish.

  • snidewoman

    This article is hysterical..

    “Republicans, who were nearly lockstep against any climate legislation with a cap, were only to happy to abuse it.”

    Cough ..ahem ..reconciliation “Health Care Bill”… we Elect people to represent us… the 2/3 is an assurance that bad legislation does not get enacted. Talk about abuse… this administration is doomed. Americans are not stupid…we know when were being fed shrimp and told it’s lobster.

  • snidewoman

    And…. as long as I am ranting… the problem is you do think people are stupid… I have a little more faith in my fellow humans… provide us with a clean alternative and we will use it because it’s the right thing to do…. arm twisting and game playing and economy damaging polices are not necessary… just invest in development… Tax is not the answer to every issue…Capitalist has become a dirty word synonymous with greed but every time you turn around liberals are looking to take some money from someone… honestly… too funny…

  • releggneh

    The reason why the money hungry dems are not pursuing this crap & tax is because they know it will drive up our costs & they have already crammed everything down our throats already & they know they are running out of time> November is coming up quickly. That is why the dems are talking about not letting the Bush tax breaks expire!! The dems think we will all be fooled by their tricks. Where is the same arrogance we saw when they did the bail outs, the lies, the back door deals,healthcare takeover etc. It seems the closer they get to November the more conservative they get!!! Wrong!! They were hoping we would forget all this! Not a chance in Hell!!! Come on November, take our checkbook away from these clowns!!

  • snidewoman

    My husband and I were laughing just this morning… we are seeing President Obama turn republican right before our eyes… game over…

  • releggneh

    If you truly believe what you just said, then why were all those emails sent? The scientists have said there is has been no global warming in the last 15 years!! Are we supposed to believe the massage king Gore!!! Please! I do believe you have been watching too much sci fi tv or listening to your liberal dems that need more of our money for their pockets!!

  • rossmcleman

    It failed because the public is not stupid. It failed because the public can detect blatant anti-factual propaganda. This is self evident from the fact that the vast majority of comments posted here mock and deride the stupidity of the article.

  • releggneh

    Have you ever heard of season change! Every 10 years or so we go through a cycle. So lining the politicians pockets with our money is going to help save the trees & animals.And if it is global warming, then why did we in the midwest have the coldest temps this winter in 10 years!! Oh, but I forgot, the freaks now call it climate change because no one was buying their global warming claim! Why don’t you check into who is really pushing this, I do believe it has something to do with Soros. After all, Oslima gave Soros, billions of our dollars so he could drill off of brazil. If they want to cap emissions, then why would your prez give more of our money away so they could drill!!

  • vintel7

    No. It indeed failed because the public is stupid and slow to act. Only in war and stupidity is the American public quick to act. Face the facts and suck it up. At this stage in humantie’s evolution, humans are not very bright. Perhaps a few points brighter than a rhesus monkey. Look at religion. It is all based in myth and bs. Yet, some ridiculous percentage of Americans believe it literally. To an Anthropologist and mythologist, that stage of human growth is called the mythic-literal stage. Where most humans are at, they are not intelligent enough and their consciousness not evolved enough to discern truth from falsehood…nor facts from myths. That is another discussion. The facts are this. Climate Change is man made and is accelerating and will have disastrous catastrophic consequences for the human race. Thousands of scientists and climatologists agree. This year and last were the hottest on record. This is the hottest decade. Republicans will wail and gnash their narcissistic teeth when they witness what is already here and what is to come. The planet is on the cusp of extinction and humanity is too narcissistic, selfish, and stupid to act.

  • vintel7

    So many ignorant stupid comments here. The planet losing 90% of its population from global warming and the world wars and catastrophies will actually be a good thing. It will rid the world of republicanism which is politicized narcissism….the anti intellect party of no.

  • http://prelator.wordpress.com darklordofdebate

    There’s another reason why cap and trade failed that this author seems unwilling to consider–it was simply bad policy. Whether anthropocentric global warming is real or not, the simple truth was cap and trade would have done nothing to solve it. It would have barely made a dent in global carbon emissions, and in even the best projections by environmentalists it would only have helped lower temperatures by a tiny fraction of a degree.

    Is that really worth having the government completely re-order our national economy, costing billions of dollars and millions of lost jobs? And good grief, you thought people were mad when gas hit $5 a gallon. Imagine the $10 or $20 a gallon it would have been with cap and trade! I wonder what all the liberals would think when gasoline becomes a luxury good and the poor people they love to claim they’re protecting couldn’t afford to drive cars anymore. So much for being “progressive.”

    What liberals and environmentalists need to do is stop being so wedded to only one policy solution for dealing with global warming (and one that just happens to give the government the keys to control the entire economy). Here’s an idea: let’s just try adapting to a changing climate, and start developing technology that will let us take advantage of its benefits (such as longer growing seasons) while mitigating its more negative effects.

  • snidewoman

    “Climate Change is man made and is accelerating and will have disastrous catastrophic consequences for the human race.”

    Sooo vintel7… why don’t you just stop screaming the sky is falling and let mother nature wipe the stupid polluting humans (oh wait only human republicans) off the face of the earth…

    Its funny lots of people have their myths they feel passionate about.. to quote you

    “not intelligent enough and … consciousness not evolved enough to discern truth from falsehood…nor facts from myths” You are NO different..”

  • tiredofextremism

    I think most of you are speaking from emotion, and not from logic.

    1000s of experts WORLDWIDE agree the climate is changing, and we need to do something about it. The urgency and severity is debatable, but there is nothing wrong with taking steps NOW to prevent a possible disaster.

    The Republicans don’t even want to TALK about this issue. They are so arrogant and immature, they can’t have a reasonable discussion. How come George HW Bush proposed a very similar thing during his term if it was so bad? The initial cap and trade proposal was designed to create jobs and reduce harmful emissions. If the GOP stopped being babies, they would work to find the best way to implement those goals.

    If you study recent history and the recent GOP rhetoric (and especially that of the radical/extremist right-wing media), you will see COUNTLESS examples of lies and deceipt — from the nut cases who claimed the President isn’t a citizen, to those who claimed the health care bill could allow US citizens to be jailed if they didn’t buy insurance, or worse yet, that it forced poor people to buy insurance. How about those allegations that Obama wanted to form a private army? NONE of those were true! They were all out of context pieces of information that were twisted by the GOP and right-wing extremist media to incite an emotional response.

    For the record.. Obama was born in Hawaii — proven fact; people will not be put in jail for refusing to buy insurance; people who can’t afford health insurance are EXEMPT from the requirement, and Obama wants an “army” of medical professions to handle unexpected medical emergencies! He also talked about armies of volunteers for organizations like Peace Corps, Freedom Corps and other humanitarian causes. Absolutely NOTHING about a military army.

    START THINKING FOR YOURSELVES, PEOPLE!

  • snidewoman

    What?… OK guess who voted against the guest worker program if you want to go into ancient off topic history.. you guessed it SENATOR Obama.. don’t you get it yet… obstructionist is whom ever is not in power at the moment..thwart the other guys ideas until we can get into power and claim them for ourselves…

    Oh and my favorite.. no taxes if you make under 250,000 that is of course unless the supreme court is about to call your plan unconstitutional because the FEDS cannot require you to buy anything.. ohhh wait..now to get what they want it suddenly IS a tax after all..

    It cracks me up when you say start thinking for yourselves and then spew party line propaganda… . hahaah you guys are killing me tonight.. very entertaining..

  • snidewoman

    Dorgan’s Amendment..Insert A Poison Pill Amendment Killing The Guest Worker Program

    Vote Obama YEA …

  • snidewoman

    Oh an one more little clarification…you wont get put in jail your income tax refund will be garnished or you will owe more taxes if you don’t have health insurance. Again with the no taxes for under 250,000.

    There are nut jobs everywhere and to site the most extreme views that very few people take seriously and try to paint the entire GOP with that brush puts you in the same misinformation monger group you are condemning.

    Why don’t you examine the facts and not just take what your news source is feeding you…

  • rharris50

    Snarkmania, I’m more than a little disturbed by your comments. First you suggest that “anthropogenic global warming is a hoax…(promulgated by) preachy know-it-all bloggers, journalists, and policy agit-proppers, who’ve never strained a muscle trying to work in the climatic sciences, or perhaps any science.” Later you said that you are”an earth scientist who has worked in the climate-change arena for over 15 years, with peer-reviewed publications. My concern is that if you have done any work in the area of climate change, you have to know that every major science organization in the world, including our own National Academy of Sciences, is in lockstep on the issue. There is continued research on the magnitude of the problem and the feasibility of reversing it, but not over the basic problem. If anything, every new study finds that the problem is worsening at a faster rate than previously thought. So I have no idea why you claimed that this was simply alarmism by people with no background in climate change. If your other statements are correct, you have to know better.
    Finally, you stated ” I’ve started a… ‘blog’ to support those who…are being railroaded by the proponents of …Global Warming…http://www.abeqas.com” I went to the site and could not find your blog, although there is a CV indicating some work in groundwater, rather than climate change. I teach environmental economics, and I’m definitely never a hoax-monger or an alarmist, but both the peer-reviewed scientific journals and the popular science press are clear on the topic. But then, you must know that already. As an aside, I wish you were right, because if you were right, and the scientific community were wrong, we could save a lot of money! If course, if the science is right, following your conclusions will result in some major social, political and economic costs for all of us in future decades. I hope that you are right, and the mainstream science community is wrong!

  • rharris50

    Snidewoman, you really don’t want to go there, do you, with that comment that others should “not just take what your news source is feeding you”? If you read the mainstream science (from ANY mainstream science organzation, including our national science organization, the National Academy of Sciences, and every other national science organization of major industrialized countries), you will get information a whole lot different from that which you receive from your news source. The claim that this is just alarmist “sky is falling” warnings is fine on Fox News, but it doesn’t play in the scientific community. Even if you don’t read peer-reviewed scientific journals, you surely must notice that every science magazine for the general public (Nature, Scientific American, National Geographic, and countless others) tells the same story. The problem is real, and it is even worse than we had predicted. It is not about short-run weather; rather it is about long-run trends that are accelerating, which is why we are losing the polar ice caps. Read about the consequences–in a science magazine, not in propaganda from a fake think tank sponsored by polluters, and not by watching Fox News, and then decide for yourself. The same goes for health care–try looking at the whole picture and not just propaganda by those with an axe to grind. You are already paying for health care by the uninsured, in the form of both higher taxes and higher insurance premiums because medical providers cover the uninsured and then cover their costs by charging the rest of us more. That’s a big part of the reason why an aspirin costs several dollars in the hospital. The problem is that mechanism is wildly inefficient, because poor people use the ER for basic medical care. We can do it a lot more efficiently and fairly if everyone is covered. And in spite of your protestations, it would be insane to allow people to opt out, because there is no way that we would then let them die when they got sick. That’s the reason for mandatory insurance. Get it? It keeps the rest of us from being forced to pay for those who choose to do without insurance.

  • snarkmania

    rharris50 Thanks for your considered comments. The major distinction between what I wrote and how you have characterized it, is that I preface AGW with “Catastrophic”. An example of my concern can be found in the alarmist comment preceding yours: “..we are burning ourselves out of existence”. I’m focused on those statements, whether they come from scientists, or the other journalists, bloggers, and such.. And I note that most ‘scientists’ appear to avoid the ‘Catastrophic’ when referring to AGW. This may seem minor yet I feel it is enormously important.

    Even the certainty and finality that many scientists appear to adopt concerning AGW (without the ‘Catastrophic’ prefix) is a concern.
    My reasons against CAGW are included at my site. Quickest link to the core of the argument is at
    http://www.abeqas.com/South%20Polemic.html

    Regarding your assessment of my qualifications, my professional work is not limited to hydrogeology, and includes participation in an international post-doctoral workshop on hydrometeorology and climatology, a widely-cited paper in a major peer-reviewed earth sciences journal on climatic forcings, and several on paleoclimate issues (and more). I stand behind everything I said, fully aware of the challenges when addressing systems that are replete with chaotic feedback mechanisms, especially when one is trying to reach conclusions that can be used in the making, defending, or undermining of policy.

  • mycophile

    @ MOST OF YOU~~
    .
    It is my opinion that you are posting not only hypocritically, but ignorantly.
    .
    I did not mean “stupidly”. I meant “ignorantly”,in its strictly literal sense, “without sufficient knowledge” (yes, even snarkmania. I have a background in hard science research, have been published myself, and have many close friends with PhD’s, some of them with more than one, and I report that there is no such thing as having a complete set of scientific data), so don’t get your panties in a wad over negative connotations of that word.
    .
    I’m not going to take the time to give referenced responses to all your arguments. And I am therefore not going to pretend that my opinions here are “facts”, beyond the “fact” that they are my opinions. One of the things that strikes me as hypocritical about your posts is that you criticize one another for not unequivocally substantiating posted comments, and yet what you offer (if at all) to substantiate your own is also subject to question, just as mine are.
    .
    I will address two comments directly, though, that are cut from the same cloth.
    .
    The first is groovygoober @ 21: “You are just an example of the typical tree hugging, frog protecting libtard. ANYTHING for the trees or the animals, regardless of the impact on the world around you.”
    .
    If I responded in kind, it would just sound like all the other playground, “my Dad can beat up your Dad”, comments of its ilk here. Instead, I am going to type that it is obfuscation — what groovygoober means by “the world around us” is the economic model which most everybody is so addicted to that the mere idea of putting any brakes on it brings up the fear in them that they will die without it.
    .
    I submit my opinion that such a fear is on one hand primarily emotional, with little logic involved. One has no way of predicting how difficult or easy it would be to surviive, nor how emotionally comfortable or uncomfortable it would be to live, in a world where everyone was living in a different context. Viewing it from the confines of the current paradigm is like the junkie imagining running out of heroin — they cannot feel what it would be like to be over the withdrawals.
    .
    I submit my opinion that, on another hand, there are way more humans than the sustainable carrying capacity of the planet, anyway, and thus an “adjustment” (in financial sector parlance) is inevitable, no matter what. If I were to be charged with the task of deciding who to cull from the herd, I would choose those who have the farthest to go to embrace living more sustainably, and groovygoober sounds a likely candidate. Nothing personal, just practical in a triage situation.
    .
    Which brings me to kkurt@23; “the short sightedness of the enviros who only look to today and now–not looking forward to see that their concerns would pass away as science and American ingenuity would cure the problem.”
    .
    First of all, I can confidently state that this is a characterization of “enviros” that belies my experience with all but a tiny, tiny fraction. More than that tiny fraction have struck me as being fanciful and/or incomplete in their logic or scope of vision, but not in their focus on long-term sustainability over short-term convenience. What kkurt posits as a characteristic of “enviros” is more properly the mode of a far greater percentage of so-called “right-wing”ers, in my experience — ‘more goodies for me NOW, at any cost to any other species or life-webs’. Also in my experience, a great deal of “enviros” demonstrably sacrifice creature comforts and consumerism (both in absolute terms and in comparison) in their care for Creation (the more real “world around us”) than do “utilitarians”.
    .
    Secondly, I submit that “science and . . . ingenuity” (“American” or otherwise) has NEVER “solved” the equation of the pace of consumption of resources with the pace of creation of resources, nor its co-equation of the pace of creation of unwanted materials with the pace of breaking down those unwanted materials into resources– it has only sometimes solved the equation of the pace of conversion of resources into goods and services with our collective appetite for more goods and services — an appetite more properly characterized as an addiction to the dopamine rush from imagining ourselves as gods with power over reality — an addiction the pursuit of satisfying will run the well dry.
    .
    I don’t believe for a second that our record as humans gives any cause whatsoever to believe that we will use our ingenuity to find and effectively apply technology to collectively live sustainably on this planet before our arrogance leads us to our end. A belief that we will can only be held as a matter of faith, and here in Oregon we currently have in the news some graphic examples of the results of stubbornly adhering to a faith-based belief in the face of continual failure of one’s belief to manifest into successful action.
    .
    Oh, by the way, I shan’t be back to this blog to see any responses to this post, so, unless you want to use it as fodder to argue amongst yourselves some more, you might as well just store this in your memory banks and hold it up next to your experiences to see if it seems to be reflected in them..
    .
    After all, it’s just one person’s opinions.

  • dtyra

    Just another tool for the brainless progressive masses. We still have the First Amendment.

  • dtyra

    Why move to Mexico? Mexico is coming here.

  • dtyra

    I see you’ve read some of James Fowler’s work. You might want to return and re-read his work before you use it to explain the human race.

  • dtyra

    Hurray! The liberals win! Unfortunately the prize will be gone. The usual result of progressive politics.

  • snidewoman

    The point is Our current President’s administration is lying to get what it wants… sound familiar… Iraq… this president is NO different . I don’t just fall in line with his policies because its “cool” to do so. Question everything even popular likable presidents.

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