Climate Change: How Adapting to Warming Could Make It Worse

Positive feedback cycles—they’re what keeps climatologists up at night. The term describes the way that certain ecological responses to a warming climate can further accelerate warming, creating a feedback cycle that can spiral out of control. Take the billions and billions of tons of methane buried beneath the Arctic permafrost. Methane is about 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but fortunately, those vast stores in the Arctic are locked beneath frozen soil, for the most part unable to escape and add to the greenhouse effect. But as the planet—and especially the Arctic—continues to warm, some of that permafrost will melt, potentially leaking methane into the atmosphere and amplifying global warming. And the warmer it gets, the more Arctic permafrost will thaw and the more methane will be released—so on and so on.

But as the planet itself reacts to warming, so will we. People will move away from the coasts as sea level rises, or shift agriculture to the north as the land we farm now becomes too hot and too dry to be productive. Human influence on the planet will shift as we adapt to warming—and we may end up doing even more damage to the Earth than climate change itself.

That’s the warning raised by in a new paper published in the August 6 edition of Conservation Letters. A group of scientists from the green group Conservation International, Princeton University and the University of Massachusetts surveyed how humans might respond to a warmer world—and it adds up to bad news for biodiversity. As the authors write: “The indirect effects of climate change may affect biodiversity and ecosystem services as much or more than the direct effects of climate change alone.” A quick list of what we’re already doing shows what they mean:

  • The U.S. has spent billions to support the growth of the corn ethanol industry—partially out of the belief that such first-generation biofuels could replace some oil and cut carbon emissions. But the policy has been linked to losses of grassland habitats in the Conservation Reserve program, while some the fertilizer used to grow that corn eventually washes out in the Gulf of Mexico, feeding dangerous dead zones. And there’s growing doubt that first-generation biofuels cut carbon significantly.
  • Hydropower is an existing, utility-scale source of very low-carbon renewable energy. But massive dams can cause ecological problems of their own. China’s massive Three Gorges Dam will be able to produce 22,000 MW of electricity—offsetting countless polluting coal plants—but its 600 sq. km reservoir has threatened 37 endemic plant taxa and 44 endemic fish species, while displacing over 1 million people, who will migrate to new land and put pressure on wildlife there.
  • Decreasing water supplies in the American Southwest—linked in part to climate change—has motivated Las Vegas to propose a massive series of pipelines that would bring groundwater from the valleys of eastern Nevada to the booming desert city. The water will come, but the project will likely damage species and ecosystems in the area. The same thing is happening in dry Australia, where proposals for water pipelines conflict with the need to protect the health of river systems.

That’s just what’s happening now. The study team—led by Will Turner at Conservation International—project the impact of future adaption efforts as warming worsens, and the picture isn’t pretty:

  • According to climate models, already nutritionally stressed regions like southern Africa may experience substantial declines in corp productivity in just a few decades. As existing farmlands dry up, refugees will seek to colonize wild territories—seriously impacting biodiversity as protected areas are converted into cropland. Even as warming renders some agricultural land unsuitable for farming, however, rising temperatures will open up territory long considered too cold to support crops—and we’ll likely take advantage of that. But much of that new land—like high-elevation areas of East Africa and parts of western Russia—are biodiversity hotspots.
  • The study notes that a fifth of the world’s remaining tropical forests lie just a few days walk from human populations that could be forced to move should sea levels rise by 1 m. When people migrate away from the coasts to escape the rising seas, expect them to use those forests for fuel and clear them for farming. That could be devastating for biodiversity—nearly half of the Alliance for Zero Extinction hotspots exist within this zone.
  • As warming melts Arctic sea ice, it will also open new shipping lanes and increase the possibility of expanded offshore oil and gas exploration. The far North has been largely untouched by human beings—the presence of heavy shipping and energy infrastructure could wreak havoc on wildlife that will already be coming under threat directly from warmer temperatures. And that’s without a devastating oil spill.

The lesson here isn’t that human beings can’t adapt to climate change without adding to the destruction created by…climate change. It’s that adaptation will only work if it’s well planned for the long-term, and if it takes into account impacts on wildlife and nature as well as on human beings, as the study’s authors write:

The conservation of biodiversity and the amelioration of dangerous climate change are not inherently antithetical. Mitigation and adaptation policies that couple sustainable natural resource management with human development may offer the best possibility for positive ecological and societal outcomes (Ahmad 2009; World Bank 2009). These outcomes depend on considerably more guidance from, and research funding to, the scientific community. Fortunately, maintaining natural habitats, both in parks and working landscapes, is one of the most cost-effective and readily available approaches for mitigating climate change and facilitating human adaptation (Turner et al. 2009; Figure 3): intact marine and forest ecosystems sequester and store carbon and play critical roles in climate regulation; healthy mangroves and reefs dramatically reduce the impact of storm surges on coastal communities; forests, wetlands, and grasslands contribute to ample, clean, consistent water supplies for downstream communities and crops; and wildlands harbor untapped resources, such as the genetic diversity among wild relatives of crops, that can facilitate adaptation to a changing climate. Limiting the losses of biodiversity from climate change mitigation and adaptation actions will be critical to maintaining the ecological services upon which we and all other species depend. Increased research focus on the indirect effects of climate change, coupled with expanded support for biodiversity conservation, will ultimately lead to better policies and programs dealing with global climate change.

Of course, the only problem is that it’s our inability to plan well for the long-term that has led us to the climate crisis—and there’s no evidence that has changed, even as the impacts of warming become harder and harder to deny. Unless the pace of warming suddenly slows—or we can rapidly cut carbon emissions thanks to a political and technological miracle—we may need to beat a few tactical retreats in the face of climate change. How well we plan for that day will decide whether those retreats can help us live to fight another day—or simply lead to greater catastrophe.

Related Topics: Arctic, Arctic methane, biodiversity, biofuels, climate change, conservation, positive feedback, three gorges dam, Climate Science, Conservation
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  • orkneygal

    According to the DMI, which is the foremost authority on Arctic weather conditions, this NH summer has been one of the coldest on record above 80N, continuing the overall cooling trend at the top of the world.

    Meanwhile, global sea ice extent has remained constant, with a small reduction in Arctic ice extent matched by a small increase in the Antarctic.

    UAH satellite data continues to show no alarming global temperature increases, and even suggests a slight cooling trend.

    The entire premise of this article is based upon supposed trends which are not supported by the observational evidence.

  • http://stormsun.wordpress.com stormsun

    The University of Colorado has photographic records ice in the arctic -their analysis disagrees with yours totally.

    We could break the 2007 ice lows this year- ice extent has NOT remained constant. It continues to decline.

    see http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

  • http://minnesotafarm.wordpress.com Michael

    You had better check your research. The dead zone in the Gulf has actually decreased in size as the ethanol industry has grown.
    Due to the decrease in corn prices since 2007 very little land came out of the CRP program, mostly because the land in CRP is not suitable for corn production.
    Although Las Vegas may be having water problems, other areas of the Southwest are having no problems. Most of the watershed that feeds Phoenix is full.
    I would have to surmise that you did no research to check the “facts” of your article. Your shoddy research in these areas brings the entire premise of the article into question.

  • orkneygal

    Global sea ice extent has remained fundamentally constant, with normal seasonal variations, since 1979.

    Global Sea Ice extent shows no evidence of any global warming or cooling trend of any significance since 1979.

    A slight decrease in Arctic extent during the satellite era has been been matched by growth in the Antarctic ice coverage. The net effect is no significant change in Mother Earth’s storehouse of sea ice.

    That’s what the scientific data says. The link is below.

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg

  • jeffreyl54

    I wonder when we will we learn to love the world and to embrace limits….warming is here….its mostly human caused…and we can work to mitigate it. Ah, human hubris…

    I for one will work to reduce my carbon footprint and to help others do the same.

    to continue to live the way we have is insanity for the planet….and for the future.

    Jeffrey

  • rahonavis2

    Uh Orkney your own cites figures show a dramatic dip in sea ice levels in recent years
    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg
    .
    Here is a direct quote for the front page of the cite your claimed said there was no evidence of sea ice decline since 1979.

    “Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4 degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover) archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.
    Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding 30%.”

    So lets try that again shall we.

  • djlaxar

    “Weather” is a different, though related, process than “global warming.” You reference NH, that’s local (weather). Global warming means just that, the *average* temperature of the Earth’s surface, found by taking temperatures from all over the world, thousands of them, and averaging them. The warming that’s been documented has consequences in the larger systems of the world, sea currents for example, abnormal amounts of calving of ice sheets, the retreat of glaciers in most parts of the world at increasing rates, more intense storms, changes in rainfall patterns–and these last couple show how “global warming” can begin to impact “the weather.”

  • matthewmarkjohn

    rahonavis2,

    Please, when responding to another’s post, make sure you have read and understood the concepts presented. What orkneygal said is that loss of Artic ice has been matched by Antarctic ice gain–therefore, no total loss of Earth ice. I’m not saying she’s right, but I am saying that your attempted rebuttal mentioning Northern Hemisphere ice decline without any mention of what’s happened simultaneously with Southern Hemisphere ice adds another irritatingly irrelevant post to sift through for those of us who search these articles and comments trying to ascertain for ourselves the extent of the global warming issue.

    I fall firmly on neither side of the debate. I’m the kind of person that the firmly entrenched on one side of the debate or the other are trying to recruit. The snarky comments like your ending leave me not favoring your side, and combined with your dimwitted response makes the other side look all more dignified.

  • bdowne01

    jeffreyl54: “Human Hubris”.

    Indeed. Here we sit, with all our technology analyzing every bit of calculable data we have.

    The hubris of thinking we have definitively detected and understand a trend with a few thousands of a percent worth of data within an environmental system that is 4.5 billion years old.

    The hubris of thinking and assuming that the climate we’ve thrived and expanded in should be the way the Earth shall remain for the rest of its existence.

    The hubris of thinking we actually have the power to cause and control it all.

    Hubris, indeed.

  • policywank

    The consensus of the scientific community is pretty clear. I figure anyone who is clearly in the denier camp isn’t worth arguing with anymore. You can’t argue with ideology. You might as well try convincing some college aged communist that it’s not inevitable that the working class will rise up and throw off the shackles of capitalism real soon now or a fundamentalist southern baptist that these aren’t the end times.

    Global warming’s not going to end all life on earth. It might end human life. It might just shred our ability to continue contributing to the problem. As long as we can be kept from nuking the place into a charred, dead hulk, life on this planet will go on.

  • meltos

    There is no doubt that the world’s people can adapt to earths changes whether colder or warmer.What really interests me is the wait and see attitude from some folks.The sky is falling is not what I’m saying, it would be far from now when these changes take place but isn’t that what we are saying about the future of our children about money issues.Prepare now so things can balance out for the good of all mankind.BTW if the sky does fall with a few meteorites hitting Earth could bring the Warming or Cooling on faster than we could plan for.

  • http://icon4.wordpress.com icon4

    For the record, the Las Vegas water problem is not caused by global warming. Drought and water shortage are presupposed rather than proven to be “linked in part to climate change”–a rather disingenuous phrase.

    The giant reservoir of ground water that resides below the Vegas valley has been depleted from population growth and it would take about 50 years to replenish one year’s usage. Las Vegas still uses this water due to the fact that it is not legally entitled to more water from Lake Mead. This agreement dates back to the 1930′s when Las Vegas was barely more than a little town between Utah and California that didn’t expect to ever need a new water supply.

    So, Las Vegas is suffering from its own success at drawing more people, not from the horrors of global warming, aka climate change, aka climate crisis, aka religious scientific revivalism.

  • http://icon4.wordpress.com icon4

    I would also point out the incriminating detail that leaked into this article:

    “Methane is about 20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide”

    Actually, water vapor is the greatest contributor of global warming (even more than ozone and methane). But why would scientists tell people to stop boiling water or stop flatulence? That would be silly.

    Silly, indeed.

  • orkneygal

    Thank you matthewmark for your response, it was well written.

    As far as the facts about global sea ice extent, I will leave it to the scientific data, which is available at the link in my previous post, to speak for itself.

    I’m sure we are all waiting to see how rahonavis2 responds.

    Hope he’s not gone all sulky again.

    Some people refuse to admit it when they make an error.

  • rahonavis2

    First mathewmarcjohn, if I offended you I apologize. The reason I focused on the arctic is that the “evidence ” presented to counter global warming was a single figure without context derived from this site, which is devoted to studying arctic ice levels. Thus I simply said the site that orkneygal chose to site actually disputes they’re statement. Oh and the antarctic has shown increased levels of ice loss
    Antarctic Ice Loss Speeds Up, Nearly Matches Greenland Loss
    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/antarctica-20080123.html
    also see
    Recent Antarctic ice mass loss from radar interferometry and regional climate modelling in Nature geoscience 1:106-110 (2008)

    As a scientist I am angered by this idea that its a debate, its not . This is evidence versus opinion, reality versus belief. If I offend I am sorry, but the lack of acceptance of clear evidence by some people really angers me.

    Sorry if this comes across as “sulking” but i was actually busy submitting a manuscript.

  • matthewmarkjohn

    Understood. As a social scientist, I understand the frustration at willful disregard for scientific knowledge. I also recognize the futility of trying to “prove” the obstinate out of their willfully ignorant state. I have come to believe that many who are slow to acknowledge or even outright deny any global warming are actually skeptical of alarmist science to begin with. And unfortunately, much of the science is portrayed in a way that seems alarmist (Gore’s movie, for example). If you’re wary of science to begin with, more science won’t convince you.
    However, I think we all agree that pollution needs to be reigned in greatly. I don’t know anyone who has flown into LAX and not had a problem with the smog. So, why don’t we all set the warming talk aside, and start taking united action on the issues that most everyone agrees on, like cleaning up air pollution. When we say “Let’s control air pollution more strictly because the pollution is disgusting and it’s bad for the environment,” it sounds a lot less alarmist (and you’ll get much less defensive resistance from the warming deniers) than saying “If we don’t control C02 levels soon we’re going to turn the planet into a desert wasteland and kill most of the Earth’s species.”
    Common ground will get us farther, faster than battleground.

  • orkneygal

    The clear evidence presented at the link I provided above is that Mother Earth has not lost any significant amount of sea ice, as measured by sea ice extent (15%), since satellite records began in 1979.

    That is the scientific evidence.
    That is the reality.

    The DMI’s data shows that the North Pole, above 80N is not warming, but rather in a gentle cooling phase.

    That is the scientific evidence.
    That is the reality.

  • rahonavis2

    hello again, sorry if the last post was a little scattered as I was rushed out of the house to go to a movie by the girlfriend (by the way the other guys is actually worth seeing).

    Orkneygal, I am sorry but once again you are wrong. This is a paper talking about the ice extent in 2007 (the lowest year on record yet)
    “Since 2002, the perennial sea ice extent and area
    have been consistently low, with the lowest ice coverage of the satellite era until this year occurring in 2005. The slightly higher extent and area of the perennial ice cover in 2006 versus 2005 illustrate the interannual variability within the overall downward Arctic sea ice trend.”
    Cosmo et al. 2008 Geophysical research letters 35

    heres an older paper on the Canadian High arctic, especially Ellesmere Island (I’ve been there,seen the slumping caused by permafrost melting first hand) talking about the decrease in ice sheet thickness over the past few decades
    Vincent et al. 2001. Polar research 37:133-142

    Spring is coming earlier, meaning that the snow pack is melting sooner and it is affecting the high arctic ecosystem.
    Hoye et al. 2007 Current Biology 17:R449-451

    Look I am not trying to insult anyone, and regional influences and variability can easily explain why certain areas of the arctic are not following the general pattern (much like different people have different susceptibility to side effects), and there are also natural cyclical factors which influence the signals i.e. to dampen or strength the results of AGW. But the fact is that AGW is real, its effects on the arctic are visible and measurable and if you doubt scientists talk to locals, they will tell you what is happening, like dragonflies on Ellesmere or lighting storms in the Canadian high Arctic.
    Our evidence for AGW is not based on the speeches of Al Gore, but on the work of literally thousands of researchers in hundreds of labs. I am sorry Orkneygal (by the way are you from the isle of Orkney, as I am half Scottish and have always wanted to visit them and have only been to the Isle of Skye) to seem so combative but you have struck a nerve with that “sulking” comment.

  • orkneygal

    The Cosmo et al paper you are referring to only addresses the Arctic sea ice extent, which has generally increased since that paper was published several years ago at the end of the most recent Arctic sea ice extent minima.

    So, I will say it again-

    The clear evidence presented at the link I provided above is that Mother Earth has not lost any significant amount of sea ice, as measured by sea ice extent (15%), since satellite records began in 1979.

    That is the scientific evidence.
    That is the reality.

    Below is a link to 800 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming (AGW) Alarm.

    The list includes many papers about past warming periods including the many that where warmer than today. It includes several papers that cover sea ice extent in past times.

    Link

    http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html

  • gmarie3

    I actually registered just to comment. I believe in polite, earnest discussion and it always irritates me when someone makes a gesture and apologizes to a poster only to be dissed a second time by the other poster.

    rahonavis2 explained his/her post saying “I am sorry Orkneygal (by the way are you from the isle of Orkney, as I am half Scottish and have always wanted to visit them and have only been to the Isle of Skye) to seem so combative but you have struck a nerve with that “sulking” comment.”

    orkneygal responds, sarcastically, with “I’m sure we are all waiting to see how rahonavis2 responds. Hope he’s not gone all sulky again. Some people refuse to admit it when they make an error.”

    I am so tired of people who hide behind the anonymity of their computer keyboards, taking the opportunity to lessen the quality of discourse.

    Thank you, rahonavis2, for your effort at civility. I am sure such efforts do not go unnoticed by many others just like me.

  • orkneygal

    Check the time stamps on the posts you refer to, gmarie3.

    You will see that the you have not accurately represented the true sequence of the postings in your commentary.

    My response @13 was made before rahonavis2′s reply under @7.

    My response @13 was not in reply to rahonavis2 reply @7. The time stamps demonstrate that conclusively.

    To understand the commentary flow on this board, you need to realize that the board software does not post comments in chronological order.

    I await your apology for misrepresenting my comments as a sarcastic response.

  • megamiddlemyth

    Assuming some global warming is happening…and most of us aren’t giving up our cars or air conditioners if we’ve got ‘em…….the article attempts to address the question: so what? Some loss of biodiversity…..well, again, so what? Theauthor writes of China’s Three Gorges’ Dam, saying:
    Three Gorges Dam will be able to produce 22,000 MW of electricity—offsetting countless polluting coal plants—but its 600 sq. km reservoir has threatened 37 endemic plant taxa and 44 endemic fishes.

    But: who is going to notice or care, what actual effect will this have? I understand that some genetic discovery will go extinct unnoticed, but really: Is it going to create a catastrophe?
    There was an article in Atlantic Monthly a few years ago , Global Warming: who wins, who loses? –

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/04/global-warming-who-loses-and-who-wins/5698/

    that takes a less catastrophic view.

    OK, I am probably just ignorant. And I am open to learning. But it seems to me that “where there is now wheat, then there will be rice”, and that the coming changes, while undoubtedly major for our settled lifestyles, won’t be the end of the world. Thoughts?

  • gmarie3

    I do apologize, Orkneygal and am truly happy to see that I was wrong. The time stamps are certainly odd; most replies are in order…

    I am just so weary of snarky comments and unkind remarks. We are so polarized on so many issues in our country right now that I actually crave intelligent discussions on these important issues,

    Again, I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion. That only adds to the problem.

  • orkneygal

    Your apology is accepted.

    The point you are making about the state of the discussion in the USA is interesting. I live in Wellington, and in our country we are able to still have mostly civil, polite debates about issues of public concern. It is sad to see what is going on in the USA.

    Are you familiar with the recent, absolutely shocking events surrounding Dr. Judith Curry?

    She is a well respected climate scientist who supports the view that the current warming is at least partially due to human activity.

    She has been vilified by her colleagues in the scientific blogosphere in just the last 10 days.

    Her crime?

    She read a book and is suggesting that others read it, too.

    How telling about the state of the climate science community’s open mindedness and intellectual curiosity.

    The story is most interesting and shows the vicious, hateful mentality of many so called climate “scientists”.

    There is a summary and some discusion by Dr. Curry at the link below-

    http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/08/03/the-curry-agonistes/

  • orkneygal

    Your apology is accepted, gmarie3.

    The point you are making about the state of the discussion in the USA is interesting. I live in Wellington, and in our country we are able to still have mostly civil, polite debates about issues of public concern. It is sad to see what is going on in the USA.

    Are you familiar with the recent, absolutely shocking events surrounding Dr. Judith Curry?

    She is a well respected climate scientist who supports the view that the current warming is at least partially due to human activity.

    She has been vilified by her colleagues in the scientific blogosphere in just the last 10 days.

    Her crime?

    She read a book and is suggesting that others read it, too.

    How telling about the state of the climate science community’s open mindedness and intellectual curiosity.

    The story is most interesting and shows the vicious, hateful mentality of many so called climate “scientists”.

    There is a summary and some discusion by Dr. Curry at the link below-

    http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/08/03/the-curry-agonistes/

  • gmarie3

    Yes, I’d read some of the back-and-forth conversation surrounding Ms. Curry and agree that we should all remain open and keep the science and debate transparent as we examine all of the information out there. It’s shameful for either side to try to silence opposing points of view.

    I think that, in America, what sets some folks (including me) off is the tendency of many skeptics to take a stand based on their association with the oil industry, Wall Street or the military establishment, all of whom seem to have a vested interest in discrediting those who feel that global warming is a reality.

    The IPCC and others then react by making mistakes and digging their heels in on the other side.

    I don’t know if global warming is caused by humanity or if it’s a normal part of Earth’s climate cycle but i tend to give more credence to folks and scientists who have altruistic rather than exploitative motives. Most legit scientists on the “skeptical side” do not debate global warming per se, but the degree to which we are warming, the underlying cause oor the alarmist nature of some claims.

    Here is one person’s response to Ms. Curry’s efforts. He approaches her and her position fairly, I believe:

    http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/05/judith_curry_advocates_for_a_c.php

  • http://higlabm.wordpress.com higlabm

    It is refreshing to read an article followed by a discussion that expands my understanding and my interest. Thank you.

  • orkneygal

    That is an interesting piece about Dr Curry’s position from last May, gmarie3.

    I wonder what that author thinks now, after the most recent vilification of her by what appears to be all “the teams”.

    As I am sure you are aware, some of the climate science “mafia” have made sexist based accusations against Dr. Curry that are obviously false, clearly libelous, disgustingly ad homenium and not worthy of repeating here..

    It is shocking to see a respected scientist dragged through the mud by supposed colleagues for simply suggesting that fellow scientists read a book that does not support their beliefs.

    Will the next move be to create a Fahrenheit 451 movement for material that does not support the AGW religion?

    The AGW high priests have already produced a Stalin-like “black list” of scientists considered “non-believers”.

    It is sad to see the land of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman, et al reduced to this state.

  • rahonavis2

    Orkneygal, those papers mostly address how natural cycle influence the effects of AGW. Thats why I hate when people talk about “alarmist” scientific predictions (as opposed to actual overreacting lay people, who like may other radicals on the left and right take real maximum or minimal values and assume that they the expected), workers (and I know because in my field we do it all the time ) list confidence bounds around predictions, and those bound depending on the model may be quite large. As more data comes in some estimates are dismissed others are confirmed. Those papers are simply stating that some model parameters need to be changed (and in the more recent models these changes are added). You can go to any filed and find a similar number of papers talking about modifications based on local or specific case examples to an overarching model, that doesn’t mean the model is wrong, just that the first approximation was to inpercise, and newer data can improve it. I work in evolutionary biology and can tell you specific interaction models or how certain details (such as the prevalence of non-adaptive structure or developmental constraints) does not mean that evolution does not exist, just that we are now beginning to understand how complex nature really is (especially given your “mother earth” comments, but I digress). this is how science works people, one idea is proposed, others take whacks at it. Which is also why the ridiculous statements about a “mafia” and fahrenheit 451 make me seriously doubt your knowledge of science. The easiest way to make a name is to take down a famous idea, and given that there is no “high priest ” in any field (you can actually present a list of people who you believe should review your paper when submitting if you can show they will be biased in reviewing it) and the vast majority of workers will change their mind if the data is compelling (after all who would want to waste decades of their life working on something they know is a lie, when they could make far more money in the private sector). There is no big conspiracy, but if you challenge the work of hundreds of other workers , which has stood up for decades, you better bring the data, not just opinions.

    OK onto other topics
    The DMI, on there website talks about how they are studying the effects of climate change on the arctic. The NSIDC has stated that this July showed the second lowest ice levels in history (check out the graphs, after a spike in levels in 2008, which is not unusual, given inter annual variations, the decline continues, and the general downward trend is unmistakable).
    This is from the DMI website
    The Frozen Sea
    Since the 1970s the extent of sea ice has been measured from satellites. From these measurements we know that the sea ice extent today is significantly smaller than 30 years ago. During the past 10 years the melting of sea ice has accelerated, and especially during the ice extent minimum in September large changes are observed. The sea ice in the northern hemisphere have never been thinner and more vulnerable.

    So I hardly believe they are claiming that there is no ice loss. There chart (which they get data from NSIDC) goes until 2009, and still shows the upswing from the absolute minimum value seen in 2007, but the downward trend is clear, and this year should be the 2nd lowest values in recorded history.

    About Dr. Curry. After having read her article and some responses, it seems that much of the problem is her using bad science. She makes statements that are demonstrably false or just personally attacks against the scientist in question.
    You can read others takes on this at
    http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/24/my-response-to-dr-judith-currys-unconstructive-essay/
    but thats beside the point isn’t it. The point is you think that scientist are attacking her because she has challenged the village elders right. Well thats not it at all, its that she is using the recent “climategate” nonsense, which has been shown to be a fabrication, with no evidence of wrong doing or error, and the small number of errors in the IPCC report (which for a massive report using thousands of sources is remarkable little) to push for a couple of blogs she writes for. Both of which either publish anti science rants or works by people with invested interest in confusing the public, similar to the tobacco companies famous strategy, without disclaimers. Does that excuse some people overreacting to her, or personally attacking her, not at all. Personal attack, especially those that are sexiest in nature are horrible and any rational person should and does condemn them. But that being said it seems much of the criticism for this essay comes from her using misinformation and championing discredited blogs. The call for transparency she advocates is laudable, but she ignores the facts on the ground (the profusion of independent agencies and data sets that already review the data and how most scientist that already post there result freely and completely with every publication.

  • orkneygal

    stand by the scientific data.

    During the age of satellite observation (since 1979), there has been no significant decrease in Mother Earth’s inventory of sea ice.

    A slight loss of Arctic Sea Ice (15% coverage) has been nearly matched by a growth in Antarctic sea ice (15% coverage).

    That is what the scientific data shows.

    There is no evidence of catastrophic global warming in observed sea ice extent.

    The chart of Global Sea Ice Area is publically available. Look at the chart and decide for yourself.

    The link is below.

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg

  • orkneygal

    You are clearly missing the point that Dr. Curry is making about all of the controversy.

    In your area of scientific expertise, scientists may publish their code and source data, but that is not how climate scientists work.

    Mann, Briffa, et al, have stonewalled, obfusticated, jumbled data, provided incomplete information (some might say misleadin information) and generally not followed the rules other scientists openly embrace and engage in about sharing data and methods.

    The critical scientific information on whether the current warming period is unprecedented or not, cannot be duplicated by other, interested scientists because of lack of transparency and failure to provide complete scientific information by those that are making the claim that it is unprecedented.

    Mann has still not released the complete data set and code for his 1998 paper that resulted in the poster child Hockey stick graph for the IPCC. Briffa has still not explained fully how he got his 2008 results.

    For standing up for the scientific principles of openness with data, sources, techniques and methods and responding to healthy and critical review, Dr. Curry is being vilified.

    That in itself says so much about the state of maturity and believability of the current state of climate science.

  • rahonavis2

    Orkneygal, the data you come from has no data since 2008 I.e. its old data, superseded by the NSIDC dataset, but even then this is the actual graph from the website
    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg

    which shows a decline and as I said in my first post on their front page they talk about how the sea ice has been decreasing for the past few decades (go ahead go to the actual site not from a secondary source and you will see they do not agree with your assessment of no sea ice level changes). “Mother earth” is not fine. Look I am sorry to seem so argumentative, but you are ignoring real data from reputable sites (in fact in two case the same sites you claimed backed up your claim). This is what the scientific data shows, in the course of this debate I have visited 4-5 different agencies which monitor sea ice or global temperature levels in addition to reading multiple published papers from the last few years and all say the same thing, that sea ice levels are decreasing, the ice is thinning. Your sole rebuttal is a single image, taken from a site whose front page and links to their own data disagrees with your interpretation, so I think I will trust them and their data over your reading of it.

    As of Mann not publishing his data, I call BS on that. All climate scientist I have heard of or read their work either publish their raw data or make it freely available to qualified requests. Many scientist for years now have made their data public, if possible, and FOIA requests from “skeptics” have been shown to be a plan to waste time of researchers (i.e. dozens at a time, all for the same work, after it has been published or made freely available)

    And Dr.Curry is not being vilified for asking for openness (as I said I have read her article as well as rebuttals) but for being misleading and dishonest. Look we live in highly politicized and volatile times, here in Canada one of the most respected climate scientist, Dr.Weaver of the university of Victoria is suing a newspaper (the National Post a right wing paper formerly owned by Conrad Black) for defamation and libel for accusing him faking data. His office/ lab has been broken into and he has been threatened. As I said any personally attacks are out of bounds and I condemn them in the extreme, but I can see why climate scientist would react strongly to disinformation being put out by someone for personal reasons. ( I will give Dr. Curry the benefit of the doubt that she is doing this out of a honest belief that she is helping, not to shill for a couple of discredited websites that she works with, but it doesn’t matter.) Reading her words, and knowing how science works her words struck me as hollow and more a product of personal problems with some other researchers than out of valid concern for the betterment of public education of a critical issue.

    Look you seem to be someone who cares for the health of our planet, but I suggest you go to the primary literature and read the work of the agencies that study these things rather than secondary websites, who no matter which side they fall on, will twist the data and publish things out of context.

  • awernick

    Forgive me for interjecting an unscientific point of view, but as a non-scientist, it seems to me the photographic evidence is very clear: the Earth’s ice is melting in many different places and at different rates. But it is definitely melting.

    See the image at the link below for an example of what I am responding to:

    http://nsidc.org/images/arcticseaicenews/20100804_Figure1.png

    The conclusion I draw is that the physical evidence is undeniable. The central arguments, then, are about the cause of the melting (and overall warming) and what should be the global response, if any. That is when we enter the realm of ideology – where everything falls apart in terms of a common-sense and civil debate.

    As an earlier commenter said, if the world-wide goals become to radically reduce pollution of all kinds – a good idea from a public health perspective – and to maintain essential ecosystems – a good idea from an environmental perspective – we may solve several problems at once without even having to address whether climate change is caused by human actions or not.

    Then years from now scientists can argue whether human actions reversed climate change or not.

    If subsequent generations are healthier and the economic policies of the world’s nations more environmentally sustainable, what difference does it make?

  • http://stan0301.wordpress.com stan0301

    It is a bit disconcerting to realize that someone so well thought of as to blog for Time is unaware that ice floats–check it out the next time you visit a restaurant–also, ice is heavy–so heavy that the land beneath the continental glaciers has been depressed to well below sea level–so, were the icecaps to melt (they won’t–more about that later) the loss of volume as the water as ice changes to water as a liquid (about a 10% loss of volume)– would result in sea levels falling–and the the rest of the thinking is about as foggy. In the past couple million years ice has come and gone–about a hundred and fifty thousand years ago (geologically very recent) it was warmer than today–you know, polar bears didn’t go extinct–nor will they now. Were you to have a time machine and a thermometer you would learn that for nearly all its history–going back to when the sun was actually cooler than today–the earth has normally been warmer than the earth we know–until about ten thousand years ago we had an ice age–are you really surprised that it is getting warmer–you should be getting VERY nervous if it weren’t. Antarctica has been frozen since the circumpolar current started to flow way back in the Miocene when Antarctica and South America separated–it will stay frozen as long as that current flows–Did you know that Mars and Jupiter are also experiencing warming?–the Chicken Littles will be quick to say that each has its own reason–the odds of three planets having warming at the same time for three different reasons is Zero. Final fact–the earth is a huge producer of carbon dioxide–the carbon dioxide we humans produce is LESS than 3% of the total produced each year–were the Chicken Littles able to completely remove fire from our existence–send us back to the Old Stone Age, the change in carbon dioxide would not even be measurable.

  • http://icon4.wordpress.com icon4

    It does seem very pragmatic to simply solve all of the pollution problems all at once by cleaning up the air. Being concerned myself with preserving the beauty of the earth and our existence on it, that sounds very appealing to me on the surface.

    The main problem with that is when it comes time to ship 500 billion dollars overseas to clean up the air in Africa, or to raise taxes 5-10% to fund cap and trade, or to destroy industries and jobs from the energy sector, or to regulate the people of this country to the point where they can’t even control their own thermostat, only a catastrophe of global proportions would convince people to relinquish their freedom so drastically. I feel like I am being lied to on a daily basis in an attempt to convince me that such a catastrophe will occur if we do not “go green”.

    Even the most radical predictions of global warming would not cause such a catastrophe, no matter what the alarmists (who usually profit nicely from their green contributions) tell us.

    Case in point: That city sized piece of ice that just broke off from Greenland is now in the ocean. According to the laws of physics, it does not have to melt for its full effect on the ocean to be observed. How many reports have you seen where coastal cities have been floaded? Has anyone even seen the ocean rise at all? If they had, would anyone even care about such a small change?

  • michaelmn

    orkneygal,

    Why doesn’t the increase in sea ice in the Antarctic cause concern for you? It is a fairly dramatic change, and from what I have read, is caused by a rather complex interaction of things rising from an increase in the temperature of the Southern Ocean.
    Regardless, a 15% gain in Antarctic sea ice is as obvious a matter of climate change as a 15% reduction in Arctic ice. Its not some sort of zero sum game where its all okay if it all balances out. Climate change is climate change, and the figures both for the Arctic and Antarctic both provide evidence of strong climate change.

  • orkneygal

    michalemn-

    There is currently a post in moderation, which has been in moderation since 10:44 PM on 8 August, which includes a current example of the sea ice anomaly calculation.

    It is certainly not 15%. I have not made any claim that the anomaly is 15% in anything that I have typed.

    The 15% figure refers to the method of calculating sea ice extent. It does not refer to the amount of increase or decrease of sea ice extent.

    If 15% of an area is noted to having sea ice, it is counted in the sea ice extent figures in the convention used by most tracking agencies. The DMI uses 30% sea ice coverages. There may be other conventions used by other agencies.

    As the data clearly shows in links I have provided above, the global sea ice anomaly has oscillated in single digit % figures during the satellite observational era beginning in 1979.

    As far as the SST of the Southern Ocean, you certainly have expressed an interesting theory that rising polar temperatures result in increased Sea Ice extent.

    In any case there appears to be no evidence of an increase in the SST of the Southern Ocean. But here’s a link, so you can look for yourself.

    http://www.remss.com/sst/sst_data_daily.html?sat=tmi_amsre

  • byronray

    Pictures don’t lie. I tried to submit these yesterday but apparently it didn’t make it, maybe because I had too many links or too many capitalized words (four I think). I’ll try submitting one link at a time.

    These are then and now photographs in side-by-side comparisons showing glacial change covering roughly the last 100 years. It’s known as repeat photography. Clearly glaciers the world over have been receding. It’s true that one may find the occasional glacier that has remained the same or advanced as predicted by climate change wherein local weather conditions may be different from the whole, but by far the vast majority of glaciers have been receding. Strong evidence for a warming world.

    http://doublexposure.net/photos.html

  • byronray
  • rahonavis2

    Stan031
    First isostatic rebound has been factored into modern estimates of how sea level rise will effect the world and it won’t cancel out the rise in sea level if major ice sheets melt. In addition water expands when heated and thus will added to the rise. In the past during periods of global high temperatures relative sea levels have been higher.

    Second current temperatures, while not the maximum the world has seen, even in the last 1.35 million years, but they are much above average and climbing.
    see Hansen et al. 2006 PNAS

    Third yes polar bears survived past warming periods, but unlike previous global climatic shifts there is now human induced pressures (i.e. land use, pollution , competition for resources, hunting etc) which put additional pressures on any organism. The refugia that polar bears and other arctic, or even temperate animals once used to escape previous natural climatic changes will be the same ones we will use or are currently using. Thus will be unavailable, leading to extinction (think of this as habitat loss, we aren’t directly killing them, but giving them no place to live or feed).

    Ok on to Mars, while there is some evidence some local areas of the polar regions of Mars are experiencing warming, this is not a global phenomena and is linked more to local basaltic rocks beds being exposed on the surface and heating in the sun. Large parts of mars, millions of square km, are known to lighten or darken due to the effects of dust in the atmosphere, and this dust will effect the amount of solar radiation that reaches the surfaces (its called albedo, it happens on earth too when large volcanic eruptions occur).
    see
    Fenton et al. 2007 Nature 446

    Your “parallel warming” idea is based on the work of K.I. Abdusamatov who thinks changes in solar output is causing this. While changes in the suns levels have caused changes in global temperature in the past (large scale long term ones are called Milankovitch cycles) recently (1960-2000) we have actually been in a period of low solar activity, thus if the sun was the sole cause of global warming, we should have seen decreasing, not increasing temperatures. See

    Impact of global dimming and brightening on global warming
    Wild et al. 2007 Geophysical research letters

    Abdusamotov’s work has not been published in peer reviewed journals and has been debunked throughly. The cause of climatic shifts on other planets have independent causes (from increased storms on Mars and Jupiter to volcanic activity on Pluto). Researchers have investigated any possible linking mechanism between any warming events on any known planet or moon in our solar system and have found no linkage.

    AS for human produced CO2 not being very much, first it is, second it is more than the natural or artificial sinks can take up (especially with increased deforestation) and it is cumulative. Imagine two identical twins on a teeter totter, each the same mass. Then every five minutes you add a couple of pounds to one side, for the first little bit not much will happen, but after an hour or two you will have tipped the balance so much that on person is resting on the ground.

    Stan and everyone I suggest you call or email your local university or collage and see if they have public lectures on the science behind AGW. If not contact a climatologist and ask (nicely) if they, or more likely one of their grad students has the time to answer your questions. Science is not good at the sound bite, and the answers take time, so be prepared to hear not simple yes/no answers, but explanations as well.

    As I said before go to the primary literature, not blogs of non-scientists, but the actually literature itself. You will see how strong the case really is, along with how much care and caution is taken when producing estimates of future events. Science is a conservative past time, because you don’t just need to get published (there are enough low impact and in house journals that it is easy to get bad science out there if you try hard enough) but peer review include the acceptance of an idea. Many papers are produced, then either quickly disproven or ignored because of obvious flaws, these fail the second level of peer review. To have an idea accepted by the wider scientific community is difficult and means that the ideas and data can withstand challenges to it. Ideas that last and have a impact mean something. This is not because of politics, or a cabal of powerful backers, but because they help explain something that up until now was difficult to understand. No work, if based on faulty data and/ or bad analysis will last, not matter who it is by. In evolution and paleontology, my fields, many ideas by some of the biggest names (i.e. Owen, Huxley, Darwin, Fischer, Mayr, Simpson, Romer) have been challenges and replaced because they were wrong. It is happening today. as we speak researchers are finding new data and probably challenging long held assumptions on something or another. This is how researcher work, no big dark conspiracy, but people working to find a closer approximation of reality one little bit at a time.

  • byronray
  • byronray
  • byronray

    Yet another,

    http://www.extremeicesurvey.org/index.php/galleries/

    People need to realize that there are some among us who will never acknowledge that Climate Change is happening. Some are in the employ of Big Oil and Coal and some have been duped by them. Some simply dislike environmentalists and will attack anything one says. A lot get their information from people like Rush Limbaugh.

    We need to realize that we only have this one planet and like they say good planets are had to come by. The time stop fiddling around and begin caring for the earth is well past.

  • http://icon4.wordpress.com icon4

    Arrogance and certainty does not make you right. In your search for a reason why many do not believe in the religion of global warming, you’ve missed the mark. It is not some grand conspiracy from “Big Oil and Coal.” It is not a dislike for environmentalists (though you have to admit some of them are creepy). It is not that we’ve all been indoctrinated by Rush Limbaugh.

    The reason many of us do not worship at the green altars is pretty simple. We recognize preaching when we hear it. Some of us know the difference between science and religious devotion. And we recognize that “climate change” has not been pure science for decades. Oh, there are scientific studies done and lots of scientific jargon throne around, but in the end, the church of climate change is telling us that if we do not do as they say, we will all be doomed, and even more serious, the planet will be harmed.

    Is the planet warming? With such a small sample size it is difficult to say. It appears that it is, or was. Could someone in a very clear scientific way, explain to me the true danger of a planet that has warmed by a few degrees?

  • rahonavis2

    OK icon here it is.

    These are predicted outcomes, some may happen sooner some later, if the planets temperature changes a few degrees. The dangers isn’t to the planet itself, but to us on it, as these changes will make life much more difficult for us and other organisms.

    Rainfall patterns-changes to amount, timing and location of rain will radically disrupt crops and farming for literally billions of people. Given the static nature of our communities (i.e.cities don’t move) and the propensity of humans to use violence to gain resources, this shift is predicted to lead to mass famines and violence, especially in already volatile regions such as Africa (many major military organisations are already planning for these eventualities). Oh also closer to home the bread baskets of both your country and mine (Canada) will experience weather conditions that will/ are making the growing season less predictable and will become less productive.

    Loss of coastlines -Sea level rise will include flooding of low lying areas, such as Bangladesh and many island nations. This is expected to lead to large numbers of refugees.

    Loss of biodiversity- Many organism live in clearly defined ecological and climatic zones, and give the disruption caused by human habitation and farming, cannot migrate as those zone move with the changing climate.

    Heat stress- Every summer when a heat wave hits hundreds to thousands of people (mostly the poor and the elderly) die of heat stress. Increasing the temperature a few degrees will only exacerbate this.

    Ocean currents- The reason places like the UK are relatively warm while the same latitude regions of Canada are not is due to how ocean currents transport heat. Change in current intensity or direction, cause by say injecting large amount of fresh water from melting ice or simply by changing the sea surface temperature a few degrees can induce drastic changes to the climate in many regions but also fish stocks and resources as the nutrient upwelling can and is expected to be affected, and maybe shut down in some places. This would lead to economic and environmental upheaval, especially as it affects traditional fishing grounds like the North Atlantic.

    Releasing of methane deposits stored in the now melting permafrost, causing a much more rapid warming.

    Changes in traditional water sources-as mountain glaciers melt, many millions of people will have to cope with reduction the the quantity and quality of fresh water supply, at a time of population increase both locally and globally.

    These are the dangers that are predicted, and there are others. The exact extent each one will occur in our life time is unknown. Will the planet last, of course, organisms will adapt, but we will /are seeing a mass extinction occurring globally, which will mean a huge loss in the biodiversity of our planet. In addition our presence means that natural recovery processes won’t be working as they have in the past so the true level and duration of this extinction event may be much stronger and longer than it would have been if Humans weren’t around. Also the risk that we become one of the extinct species, due to either warring over scarce resources or simply being unable to adapt such large and cumbersome civilizations is a real concern to anyone who actually likes the idea of future generations.

    Also the idea that we have little data, when we have hundreds of site giving similar patterns in dozens of different labs across the globe is simply false and show that you don’t understand the field.

    This isn’t a gloom and doom scenario, simple changes can have big impacts, and by preparing for the changes that its already too late to stop (i.e. some temperature rise and its consequences) we can ensure that both humanity and the natural world can co-exist, although our presence will always cost some toll on the earth. Its about preparing for a threat (think of it like homeland security, you know you can’t stop every terrorist who wants to kill Americans without monitoring every one 24/7, but you can put measures in place to make you more safe while maintaining personal freedoms and that is what you should strive for) and understanding the consequences of our actions. It is not about a devotion to the green, but about trying to curb consumption patterns or learning to better manage resources so that the standard of living can remain high and sustainable. Simple as that. We may not be able to have our cake and eat it too, but maybe a cupcake would still be ok.

  • http://icon4.wordpress.com icon4

    I appreciate your response. I have heard most of these predictions before. Help me out, though.

    Help me understand the link between a 1-2 degree (or do you predict 5-10 degrees?) change in global temperature and sea levels rising. Help me to understand the link with ocean currents. Help me understand how longer periods of warmth will cause farms to be less productive.

    I can understand how all of these things could be devastating, you’ll just have to explain how we make the leap from very slightly warmer temperatures on a global climatic level to the results that you mention. Start me off with sea levels rising. How can the melting of arctic sea ice (much of which is not fresh water), cause a rise in sea level when the ice is already displacing the water? Do you really think that enough of Greenland or Antarctic ice caps would melt that we would notice a difference in sea level? The average temperature of the Antarctic coast is well below freezing.

    You criticize the idea that we have only a small sample of data because you say we have hundreds of data stations around the world. When a complete view of a climate requires centuries or millennia, and you present decades, perhaps you can understand why I feel our sample size is small. Add that to the fact that not all weather stations are created equal, some are downright inaccurate, and you can see why I think good data can be hard to find.

    It appears that you feel that the planet would be much better off if humans never existed. (Correct me if I am wrong) Unfortunately, I do not agree that humans are a parasite, a planetary plague, or an ugly cancer on the otherwise beautiful earth. You and I both know that there is no reversing the industrialization of this planet and the increase in energy usage (both carbon based and otherwise), without some sort of population control or extermination order. I simply can’t go there.

    I believe that human beings are the greatest example of a biological miracle that has ever existed, and that this planet could handle, and will, hundreds or thousands of times more people than it currently holds. We will find ways to produce energy while preserving what we know to be beautiful about the earth. In the meantime, let’s use science for what is is best suited for, and that is not prophecy.

  • orkneygal

    My comment @21 to rahonavis2 on August 8, 2010
    at 10:44 pm which is still trapped in moderation as I type this.

    ————-
    rahonavis2

    I am not following what you are saying about the link I have provided for sea ice extent (15%). Other readers are likely to be confused also.

    The chart that I linked to of global sea ice extent is current and updated approximately daily. It does not end in 2008.

    Has the fact that the period used for the baseline ends in 2008 confused you?

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg

  • orkneygal

    Since you seem interested in keeping up to date about the science of Arctic sea ice you may be interested in

    http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/research/d2/masayo.ogi/2009GL042356.pdf

    The conclusion of this recent paper relevant to the subject here?

    The predominating cause for high 2007 sea ice loss in the Arctic was the wind, not high temperature. The sea ice got blown out of the polar region due to the Arctic Oscillator factor, not due to any warming.

  • byronray

    icon4 @ 1:10 pm: “Could someone in a very clear scientific way, explain to me the true danger of a planet that has warmed by a few degrees?”

    Consider that the average global temperatures since the last ices age was about 5 degrees C. cooler. That’s not much. Just 5 degrees since the ice was a half mile high or so in Yosemite Valley.

    http://tinyurl.com/32ndylr

    Ok, reverse that, and add a few degrees, how much warmer will that make the earth?

  • masudako

    I think that the article is very illuminating. But unfortunately the headline is misleading. First, the article says that human activities to adapt to warming will degrade the environment mainly in terms of biodiversity or ecosystems. True, the degradation will result in less sink of carbon which will read to some more warming, but it is not the foremost consequence. Second, the headline, if taken apart from the main text, is likely to give an impression that adapting to climate change is a bad thing. Actually some climate change is inevitable and we must adapt to it. The problem is how we should adapt.

  • masudako

    Excuse me for a misspelling: “read” should read “lead”.

  • mvdw1973

    Perhaps orkneygal needs to read the papers about antarctic sea ice and arctic sea ice. There are quite a few. All measurements show that antarctica is losing ice mass. The increase in antarctic sea ice is more than ‘compensated’ by antarctic ice loss. In fact, some have noted that this loss may well be the cause of increasing sea ice: fresh water freezes easier than salt water. Combined with a special circulation pattern due to the hole in the ozone layer, this is the likeliest explanation for the increase in antarctic sea ice.

    Arctic sea ice is even more problematic. The most ‘accurate’ measurements are based on sea ice extent (as in surface area covered). Measurements of sea ice *volume* show a very worrying picture, with 2010 already NOW well below 2007′s lowest value. Usually, lowest values are recorded mid-September.

  • mvdw1973

    Actually, the comments Judith Curry received were because she repeated provingly false statements. Some due to her own poor memory, some, well, because she openly admitted she will not bother in investigating whether the claims made in the book are actually right(!).

    The problem with Judith Curry today is that she has come with a whole range of vague, unsubstantiated, and sometimes outright false claims. When caught, she haughtily declines to discuss the matter further, points fingers to others, or shifts goalposts. This has been noted by many, and in the world of science this is very, very rapidly picked up and called out. If she’d responded to reviewer comments in the way she has done on the blogs, she’d be slaughtered by the Editor. Rejected for not responding to the criticism…

  • mvdw1973

    Loss of biodiversity is very serious. Remember that the biosphere is a heavily linked system. If you remove a link, there are several others that will react. Remove bamboo, and the panda dies out. Remove seals, and polar bears die out. Of all plants in the world, 20 of them provide 80% of our (plant) food intake. Take 1 away, and you have whole regions in peril. Remove rice, for example, and 30% the world’s population would starve, unless they can change the former rice paddies to other food sources.

  • mvdw1973

    “incriminating detail”?

    Water is very rapidly removed from the earth’s atmosphere, unlike CO2 and methane. As most people will know, the atmosphere can contain a finite amount of water vapor, which is the reason we see clouds and get rain. CO2, on the other hand, is very far from saturation, and thus remains much longer in the atmosphere. This is, of course, well known to the climate scientist, and also well known to those who have read the IPCC reports. Others, on the other hand…

  • masudako

    The paper by Ogi et al. does not deny the effect of warming in the decrease of sea ice. It did not discuss how much of the anomaly of the year 2007 can be explained by the wind effect — it is difficult. It did attribute one third of the 31-year trend to the wind effect. So wind does not explain the remaining two thirds. I think it is natural to look at thermal effect, though it may not always be global warming.

  • masudako

    That said, I can say that the accelerated decrease of Arctic sea ice extent in September should not be directly translated as acceleration of global warming.

  • scottar

    The enviros have been spouting this nonsense for over a hundred years. First it was warming, then cooling, then warming again. Past news articles showed they had the same fears of polar warming as today. We have short term trend masking long term trends masking overall era term trends.

    Warming has been occurring since the last iceage with intermit warm bubbles and cool troughs. then you have the relatively short la Nina events followed by sort term el Niya events. It’s mostly solar cycles complicated by water cycles. If anything will do us in it’s runaway population growth if not imperialistic conflicts.

    The grant gravy train is running full steam.

    Look up:

    Mar 03, 2010
    Arctic Ocean Warming, Icebergs Growing Scarce, Washington Post reports

    By Kirk Myers, Seminole Country Environmental Examiner

    http://www.examiner.com/x-32936-Seminole-County-Environmental-News-Examiner~y2010m3d2-Arctic-Ocean-is-warming-icebergs-growing-scarcer-reports-Washington-Post

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